Onan's game! (04a2043f)

[Onanista]

I’ve never heard those terms in all my civ years.

I think what gets used is “wide” versus “tall”.

You played the “tallest” game here in this one, moreso than any of us, I think. Either that, or you just struggled early and didn’t settle further out until later.

I played a very rusty game where I neglected growth, in part due to my production heavy strategies of leaving my marshes intact because they were 5-yield tiles with my early pantheon. But then I failed to convert that religion into growth as well, leaving my holy sites till far too late to benefit well from the extra food from my shrines and temples from my Feed the World belief. I also failed on the economic front…still only two traders and I haven’t even completed my internal road network! My production is solid enough, but with things getting…less than peaceful of late, I haven’t managed to get an industrial zone up and running.

I think I’m somewhat still playing Civ from a pre-civ-6 mindset…as I haven’t really gotten the hang of specialising cities yet. Choices, choices with these districts…maybe you guys have particular districts in mind already when you settle cities…I tend to just maximise what the city is already producing, which may have the same end effect…although many cities can do well with science with the right terrain…I had 4-5 campuses up this game, but Darwin I think is still waiting to rush the buildings in the 5th, which hasn’t yet been built.

I’m hopeful Poland’s Apostles may get taken out enough for the game to continue…but we shall see. Now we know @J_Dennis, and not just Poland, is a beast. I bet he wins most of his games versus his friends; maybe they got tired of playing with him.

EDIT: Actually, @francisco.santanna has played a good tall game, for the most part. His core cities are pretty huge!

[Onanista]

And now these friendly-aggressive Poles are coming to steal my bananas and plant a military outpost on the American side of the mountains separating us, just up against my capital. We see you, Poland. We see you very well.

[Onanista]

It looks like the 3 Free Friendly Fools, in our efforts to halt the religious spread, have managed to hand you the final victory by banding together in order to resist it!!!

Now we know to beware the weapon of Friendship!

[J_Dennis]

And there’s the victory screen. It was a turn faster than I thought. I didn’t even get to flip Washington and Los Angeles to Faworki Ethic by my fort Culture bomb. The settler and military engineer was ready to do that next turn.

[Onanista]

A screen I’ve never seen, not even in SP!

Nice work @J_Dennis ! I’m sure you know what you’re talking about with that engineer & settler–I only have a foggy idea.

Stay tuned and the failed 3-way conversation to derail your win should get posted in full, for your amusement.

We started too late, we got serious even later, and our friendliness conspired with you to deliver you unto victory.

[Onanista]

Stay tuned, I’ll start a 5 player on a small map with some brutal options like Emperor difficulty across the board, barbarian clans and probably a few extra CS to fill up the space left by not having a sixth player. Ancient start and using the three MP mods that seem to be common: bbg bbs & mph. Disasters maybe at 3?

Anything else any of you would like to see? @Sledge_Poteet ?

I’ll likely go random civ myself, because that’s how I best learn about them. Map…probably the Continents & Islands one? Or perhaps the Terra one…though it would be more fun to play a Terra map if we didn’t know it was a Terra map!

[J_Dennis]

I was gonna settle on the bananas just to use polands ability to culture bomb when building forts or encampments. The cities who got tiles stolen from the culture bomb is converted to Poland’s majority religion.

I used the bomb once this game, when I chopped out an encampment to steal a tile from Yeti where he was building his own encampment. His city was already converted to my religion though.

Culture bombs are so mean!

[Onanista]

True.

Well, I guess that’s that, then.

Would love to play some more with you guys!

I’ll probably get a 5-player set up this evening. I guess it’s really night already…10pm… But soon! With @Sledge_Poteet, he’s the same timezone (and city) as me, so I reckon we can keep up our fairly brisk clip of sometimes getting two turns in the same day done!

[Onanista]

For your reading pleasure, @J_Dennis! I didn’t hear back from @francisco.santanna yet for his permission…but he said so little I think I can assume it’s okay to share our private scheming…since you handed us our asses before turn 100, anyway!

Here it is, in full effect: (it could do with a lot more tidying but that’s too much work at this hour–skip the irrelevant bits!)

What to do about Poland?

Nov 10

1 / 32

Nov 10

11h ago

Onanista

9d

Any ideas? It is looking like a runaway in his favour.

Should we conspire to humble this beast of the South/West, or do we bide our time? I’m not suggesting anything immediately, as we have 23 or so more turns of friendship.

But if something doesn’t change in 50-75 turns or so…Poland seems unstoppable.

What are your thoughts?

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10

Yeti_la_Pesadilla

Onanista

francisco.santanna

Add or Remove…

Yeti_la_Pesadilla

8d

As the civ that shares the longest border with Poland, it might seem like I have the most to lose. But @Onanista is right, if we don’t band together to do something it’s going to be bad for everyone. Poland is on track to have a runaway lead in science.

The good news is that Poland is cash-poor and his cities are weak. I think we could do a lot of damage if we work together. He’s befriended everyone, so he’s got a force field right now. But my friendship runs out in 12 turns, Onanista’s runs out in 23…

It sounds like Onanista and I are sold on the idea of confronting Poland. @francisco.santanna, what do you say? Are you ready to join us?

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francisco.santanna

8d

Yes I do. I might help in the north by land or anywhere by sea. What would be the deal?

1 Reply

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Onanista

1

8d

That’s a good question. 3v1 would be tough for him…hopefully he’s a big enough person to not take it personally!

I think we’re just hashing things out right now, rather than making specific plans. America couldn’t take any military action against him for 22 turns or so; I think for both of you it’s sooner.

I guess a phased assault would be most effective? Maybe Vikings and Cree attack from the north, then maybe 5 turns later or something, I could try to take out his capital by invading by sea from the south? Just brainstorming here. I’d have to check if I can get the proper tech in time, but I should think so.

Then of course there’s the issue of…the aftermath. How far would we go? Are we looking to humble and hobble his empire (pillage tiles and take a few minor cities), or carve it up amongst ourselves, or what? It all gets pretty messy pretty quick. But, we do have time to discuss and brainstrom before enacting anything.

What did you guys have in mind?

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Yeti_la_Pesadilla

8d

I’m happy with humbling his empire, just to put the brakes on his rise. With a little luck, it’ll be a short, splendid war, J Dennis will lose a handful of cities, and we can all get back to what we were doing.

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Onanista

8d

That makes sense. Although of course it will engender a thirst for revenge on his part, no doubt.

For America, because our capitals are so close and we have the mountain range with only a few tiles of passes between (wider near Gobustan, a single tile near Washington), it’s difficult to imagine holding on to any captured cities. I guess the most natural city would be the one that’s closest to Washington…but then it’s right on his capital’s doorstep. I think this is at most the only city I would try to take and maybe keep. Otherwise, I’m happy for my part to be a pillaging run right at his capital. Perhaps this could be the diversion before you both attack…Vikings could be well placed to pick off a city or two on the west coast, Cree would naturally attack over the border. Or…your attack could be the diversion for my pillaging assault on his capital?

So, how do you guys see it. I think Plock is the name of the city nearest America. His city out west near the four tile natural wonder, with Petra, is bigger than his capital and a real engine of his economy. That could be a prize worth taking–and I think only Vikings would have a real chance of taking it. It has walls.

Those are my general thoughts. Which cities could you see incorporating into your empire, or at least cutting down to size? I suppose razing is an option, too…brutal but effective.

Sorry @francisco.santanna for all the words, if you have to use a translator…

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Onanista

francisco.santanna

6d

@francisco.santanna we could actually make good use of our current tension around your desire to continue expanding into American-claimed lands.

Nothing like starting a very believable war between us as misdirection, before we put our plan (which we haven’t fleshed out as all yet) into action.

2 Replies

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Onanista

4d

Clock is ticking, guys. If we don’t make some more definite plans soon, I have to assume coordination is not going to happen.

There are 13 turns left in my declaration of friendship with Poland. I can still have Cartography ready at that point, sooner if I made it a priority. With building units and getting them into position, it was probably time to start that active preparation last turn or sooner…

What do you guys want to do? Status quo = basically nothing. = Poland continuing to charge out ahead. Although it’s good to see Vikings are keeping pace, technologically at least. America and Cree are definitely bringing up the rear…

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Yeti_la_Pesadilla

4d

OK OK, let me take a good look at the map on my next turn, and I’ll post back here with some suggestions.

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Onanista

4d

Here’s a broad strokes suggestion: if we each hit him with 10 units, 10 good, best we can field in a good mix of units, he should be caught completely off guard. And each of us is free to do whatever we choose with them…whether it’s attempt to take a city or even two, or just pillage the heck out of an area, whatever. What you commit (anything beyond that initial investment) to holding any gains is entirely up to you.

Now I realise a phased start to the war, with you guys going first, is a tough sell, trust-wise. So maybe we just all go in at once. I really only have three routes, and two of those are quite easily blocked/defended.

As it happens, the third offers me a good chance to cut some vital resources and perhaps hamstring his response.

If we’re agreed this is a plan we can all get on board with, I’ll start turning my production to military ASAP, probably finishing short term builds first then building units. I’m low on cash so I can’t do a big upgrade, and I think you guys are in the same boat. He has the most land and the smallest army. I think he’s gotten complacent and is likely to be caught with his pants down, as the Era of Global Peace and Friendship comes to a sharp end!

How does that all sound?

1 Reply

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Onanista

Onanista

4d

At the very least this gives us a plausible reason why our armies start to grow…

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Yeti_la_Pesadilla

Onanista

3d

I think that sounds like a good plan. I’m still working out which of his cities to target first, but I don’t think there’s going to be a ton of overlap. We should be able to hit him on multiple fronts, which will keep his defenses diluted.

I’m not sure he’s totally complacent, though. City walls and a couple encampments have been popping up in his cities. I’m guessing he’s anticipating an attack, at least from me.

I’ve also noticed a big uptick in religious activity from Poland. Playing defense militarily while going on religious offense would be a sound strategy for him. Be ready to condemn any heretics if you catch them in your territory, and it would be a good idea for you two to build up some defensive religious capability (inquisition, units in your own territory to do religious battle, etc). I didn’t found a religion, and my one or two holy cites are subject to the whims of whichever religious wind is blowing hardest.

Edited to add: it sounds like you, @Onanista , have the longest to wait for your friendship with the Poles to run out, so we should use that as the start date to launch the attack. I might have a musketeer or two by then, but I think I’m going to field mostly knights as they’re my current strongest unit.

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[Onanista]

Ah, I see I’ve hit a length limit. I’ll try to get the rest up.

[Onanista]

Yeti_la_Pesadilla

One wrinkle in the 3-way alliance is that, you can’t have a 3-way military alliance in-game. There are five or six alliance types, and you can only have one of each type at a time.

I think a military alliance between @Onanista and myself makes sense because we are most likely to be on the receiving end of a Polish counterattack, and we’ll get I think a +5 combat bonus against Polish troops after we’ve both declared war. @francisco.santanna , I’d be open to a research alliance with you, and you and Onan can work out whatever formal alliance you want, if you want.

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Onanista

3d

Okay, yep, as I said: I’m learning heaps from this game.

@Yeti_la_Pesadilla please offer it again, and I will accept it. I neglected to re-offer after esc’ing out of the proposal on my turn.

@francisco.santanna what area do you think we could formally cooperate in? My economy sucks, if you can help that would be appreciated. We also admire your research ability! Hopefully I jumped to conclusions when I saw your settler near the lands America has claimed as rightfully hers. As long as these border disputes settle away into nothing, I see no reason for hostilities between our peoples. We are withdrawing our ancient armies from your southern city’s border, to better address the Polish Issue.

As one warrior to another, we extend our hand in friendship, setting our “big stick” (it’s a Teddy thing) down, just out of reach.

Let us band together to stop the religious/economic/scientific powerhouse of Poland from dominating our world!

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Onanista

2d

Update…oh I forgot to offer the alliance, my son was waiting to use the computer… no biggie.

Yes, we have two apostles incoming to Baltimore. I was able to faith buy a missionary at the holy site adjacent to both of them, but I don’t know if this will slow them down at all.

Most of my cities are now on a war footing, and next turn we’ll get policy support to pump out those units faster…the tricky bit may be keeping them hidden from those apostles…

@francisco.santanna, will you sail east and land your troops on his west coast? The big city with Petra and the natural wonder is a big prize, but maybe you’re looking to take a smaller bite that has a better chance of being successful?

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Onanista

1d

Is he getting cocky or can he actually win this in 10-20 turns?

We have finally become a monarchy and managed to stabilise our economy, and have boosted our military production with feudal contract. We didn’t use the cavalry option because we have no source of horses at home as of yet. They are in the third ring of our capital and we are short on cash.

We’ve declared our friendship with Cree as the necessary step to establish our military alliance. We have offered an economic alliance with Norway.

For some reason, most of our cities are now displeased…we are not sure why! If anyone has a spare, extra lux that isn’t ivory, jade, or cotton, we could certainly use the boost! Perhaps Norway could share some olives…you know, the ones we can see over the border from Cleveland?

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Yeti_la_Pesadilla

1d

He might be able to win this in 3-5 turns. Which is why I’m not going to wait to launch my attack. My friendship with him runs out in 3 turns, so I’ll be declaring war then. If I have open borders with both of you I can send my horsemen in to wipe out the Polish heretics.

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Onanista

1d

Excellent thinking, we will ensure those borders stay open as seamlessly as possible. It looks like we may have sealed our fates with those friendship declarations, as it seems they cannot be broken or war declared until they expire…

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Yeti_la_Pesadilla

18h

Ugh, I kinda sorta accidentally rejected your alliance offer last turn @Onanista . I wanted to shuffle around the luxuries I was offering. I still want a military alliance! Please be sure to accept it first thing on your turn. Remember if you cancel out of that screen, it’s as good as rejecting the deal and you can’t go back and accept it.

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Onanista

16h

Yeah, and I managed to change it from your proposal to mine because I thought about giving you my 50 gold, but then was unsure I had any income. Will accept as is first thing!

Let me know if a little cash would help or not.

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Onanista

15h

Hopefully when you declare war against Poland after our military alliance, this will void my friendship with Poland. Hopefully. There are several heretics I’d love to deal to, and only about 3-4 of my cities that are not yet majority Faworki…about the same number of Norwegian cities, too.

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Yeti_la_Pesadilla

15h

Oh shit, I’m afraid we’ve made another tactical error. Your post reminded me that I will not be able to declare war on Poland, so long as I’m allied with a declared friend of his!

We may have really done ourselves in in this game, all in the name of world peace. Damn you, friendship!

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Onanista

15h

Oh crap, then we are done!

What a bumbling cast of friendly fools!

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Yeti_la_Pesadilla

14h

Shh, @Onanista !! @J_Dennis doesn’t need to know about our super-secret plan to ally together to confront the Polish menace! Table talk!

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Onanista

12h

He says he already has won. I have no reason to doubt this.

I’d like to paste our whole conversation here for his amusement! With your approval @Yeti_la_Pesadilla and @francisco.santanna ??

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Yeti_la_Pesadilla

1

12h

Lol, that’s fine with me.

Edit: My turn is right after J Denis’s, and I can confirm he has won. Good game to all!

[Onanista]

@Valamas what do you do when a game ends, so the client knows?

[francisco.santanna]

Nothing much to do against Work Ethic used as they did. Congrats for Poland!
Is there any consensus that WE is overpowered? Small cities with 10+ production…

[Onanista]

Well, I’m enabling some mods for better balance, etc. That should help!

[francisco.santanna]

What is the password for your game?

[Valamas]

Just surrender from the game

[Onanista]

The 8 player? It’s 8fatfat8 …but I think I’ll scrap that one in favour of a yet-to-be created 5-player game. Somehow it’s tomorrow already, after midnight!

[J_Dennis]

Yeah, work ethic is hella strong!

I could build almost any wonder I wanted in my strong Petra city because of the desert work ethic. +4 adjacency for the natural wonder, +5 adj. from desert folklore, +3 for districts adjacent (Poland gets +1 for every adjacent district). That is +12 faith and production. It was +10 when my religion was new. That was enough for me to go hard for the desert pantheon and quick holy sites.

I gambled all on this at the beginning and was scared halfway to death when @Onanista managed to build Stonehenge before I had enough points for a prophet. I was sure he was gonna steal work ethic from under me.

That holy site later benefited from the policy that doubles the adjacency bonus. I was ecstatic when I realised I got Hildegard von Bingen that gives a holy site science too. I had 24 faith, production and science from that holy site. Bonkers!

[J_Dennis]

Thanks for posting your conspiracy against the poles.

It was a fun read.
I must say I anticipated war after the friendship and I was honestly a bit surprised everyone accepted friendship that easily at that stage of the game. Without it I couldn’t have pushed for religious victory. I thought it was a giveaway when I started building ALL of the religious wonders.
I had pondered that victory before but didn’t get serious until 10-15 turns before I won. I had just bought all of the upgrades for Moksha so he could faith buy districts. Because of that I already had some saved up faith to buy apostles for.

At the end my cities were geared toward building units because I was sure @Yeti_la_Pesadilla was gonna declare on me
as soon as he could. I was pretty confident to win that war with my winged
Hussars (64 strength). If @francisco.santanna would have attacked my coastal cities with a large armada I’m not so sure I could hold the coast. I had built the building to faith buy land combat units so I don’t think anyone would be able to take my inland cities but in a 1 vs 3 war you can never be sure.

[J_Dennis]

In civ 6 you always wants to keep going after a victory or defeat (unless you lose most of your cities).

I feel kinda bad for winning this game this way.